Tag: discussion

How to Argue with an Idiot

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First off, the best way to start is to realize that this idiot probably isn’t really an idiot, just someone who has been misinformed or is afraid of hearing the truth.

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How many people have you met in your lifetime who, when you try to inform them of something, scream, “Shields Up, Scotty!!”?

People want to believe what they want to believe, and often that means they have selective hearing or selective memory. No matter what you say, or how you say it (which is a very important part of today’s discussion), they will only remember the bits and pieces they want to, which (most often) allows them to totally twist your meaning to what they want it to be.

What an idiot, right? Not right.

People who don’t agree with you are more than likely misinformed, but then again, there is always the chance we are misinformed and we all must always be open to that possibility.

The best way to argue is to not argue: don’t even try to make them understand your position, but instead, get them to explain to you their position.

That’s right- the best way to get someone to listen to you is to first listen to them.

Let them tell you why they believe what they believe, then ask questions that will force them to re-think their position.

Step 1– The person asking the questions is the person controlling the discussion.

For example, someone says they do not believe in God. Your response is not to explain why you do, but to say something along the lines of, “OK, why is that? ” and then let them tell you their reasons for not believing. After they speak, then you can take each of those reasons and ask deeper questions. Such as if they respond with, “I have never seen any evidence that God exists.” you can respond with, “I understand. If you saw absolute evidence that God existed, would that change your mind?” Of course, the only answer they can give you now is “Yes.”

Step 2– Always ask questions which you already know the answer to.

After they answer yes, then you can say there is plenty of evidence of God’s existence, but people only recognize it as science. Just because we can understand how something works in the natural world, doesn’t mean there isn’t a supernatural explanation for how it started. Even evolution (Ahh!! He used the “E” word!) had to start somewhere, and if we accept that the idea of intelligent design is a possible way of explaining things, then God certainly has demonstrated his existence.

This is just a single example, and when you gain experience at asking questions you know will elicit a specific response, and a response for which you have an answer, you will find it easier to make people doubt what they have always thought was the truth.

People will not believe what you say is true until they begin to doubt that what they say is true, and the only way they will doubt their own beliefs is when you force them to justify those beliefs. When they begin to hear themselves say things like, “Because that’s how it is” or “That’s what I was taught”, they will realize they really don’t have an answer.

Truism: People believe only 50% of what you say, but 100% of what they say.

And here is the final and probably most important step:

Step 3- Practice explaining your beliefs in a simple manner which anyone can understand.

And that is it. When you have a discussion with someone, no matter what the topic, you must take these steps in this order:

  1. Ask them questions so you know why they think that way;
  2. Using their reasons to believe what they do, ask questions which they can’t answer without causing them to doubt their beliefs;
  3. Only now can you tell them why you believe what you do, and they might be open to accepting what you say.

This takes us back to what I said earlier, how what you say is not as important as how you say it. I learned that lesson myself many years ago, when I couldn’t figure out why at meetings I attended someone else made the same suggestion I did, usually 10 or 15 minutes after I made it, but everyone thought it was the other person’s idea. I was always ahead of the curve, and because I was explaining it in the way I understood it, no one else was catching on, but someone would always figure it out later and rephrase it, and that person made the point better than I did.

You need to know your stuff before you go out there, and you need to discipline yourself to keep quiet when someone else is answering you. People only want to hear themselves talk, and when you find someone is waiting for you to take a breath so they can tell you what they want to, realize that they aren’t listening to what you say, they’re only waiting for a chance to jump in, and when that happens you have lost control.

And if you are trying to teach someone the truth about God, if you lose control you are not the one who loses, they are because you failed to help them come to God. They may win the argument, but they lose the battle that really matters, so please realize your responsibility when talking to people, whether they are non-Believers or Believers, and discipline yourself to do what needs to be done to save their soul. Do NOT allow pridefulness to cause you to forget these important rules of engagement.

Last thing to cover today: as much as I would like to think everyone can be taught, there are idiots out there, and when someone stops discussing and turns to personal attacks, the discussion is over. When that happens, despite how much you want to cut them a new one (as I often want to do), you need to be the “better person” and an example of godliness, and simply say something to the effect of:

“I have learned that when within a discussion, one side resorts to attacking the person instead of their beliefs, it is because they cannot deny the truth of the other person’s beliefs so resort to personal insults. Since that is the point we are at now, there’s no sense to continuing.”

Proverbs tells us not to argue with a fool in the same manner as the fool, and after years in the Sales profession, I have found these simple steps help people to be open to the information I wanted to give them. I never tell anyone what they must or even should believe because I believe God gave us all free will and the right to choose. What most people don’t realize is that whatever they believe, they choose to do so, and they WILL be held accountable for that choice. That is why I have this ministry: it is not to proselytize anyone or convince them to convert or even to get them to accept Yeshua, although it would be great if anything I did led them to that. My purpose is to teach what God says, so that whatever decision someone makes, it is an informed decision.

And if the information I present helps save only one soul during my lifetime, I will have accomplished much more than anything else I have ever done.

Thank you for being here and please share these messages, subscribe, check out my books, and I always welcome your comments.

Until next time, L’hitraot and Baruch HaShem!

How To Argue Like A Believer

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I am a member of a number of different discussion groups, most of which are religious, meaning they profess to be composed of Christian, Hebraic Roots, or Messianic people.

Too often you wouldn’t know that by how they talk to each other.

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The topic of God, sin, or how to live our lives is a hot potato, no doubt of that, and engenders some really passionate discussion. Passionate is OK, really, so long as it is compassionately controlled. That means you can destroy someone’s argument but when you start to destroy the person making the argument, you have lost.

There are a few verses in Proverbs about arguing with a fool, but not everyone who argues is a fool. In fact, most are intelligent people who, sometimes, just believe in the most ridiculous things. And when we try to convince them of the truth (as we see it), we often feel like we are running headfirst into a brick wall.

And the fact of the matter is…we are.

That is the point at which I often see the discussion devolve into an exchange of personal insults.

Here’s what Socrates said about this condition:

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. 

As Believers, we should represent God well. And what I mean by “Believer” is anyone who professes to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; you may (or may not) accept Yeshua as your Messiah, which isn’t necessary to believe in God. Anyone who believes in God should act in accordance with the way he says we should.  Of course, being human that won’t happen all the time, but that’s no excuse why we can’t make it happen all the time we are in a discussion with others.

I was once told by a boss, whom I respected as my boss and (I am happy to say) still respect as my friend (that’s you, James M.), that what I say is usually the right thing, but I say it the wrong way.  Ultimately, the right thing is lost because of the wrong way I say it.

A proper argument or discussion is when we exchange ideas without anger, and we should never tell the other person what they must believe. If we want to have any chance of convincing them of our position, we must first demonstrate that we respect their right to believe what they choose to believe. If we don’t start off that way, we will never get them to listen to our side. That’s a given. So, before we begin to argue for our side, ask them why they believe in their side. Asking them questions why they believe will give us the ammunition we need to shoot down their “facts”, and we may even learn something new. Just because we believe differently doesn’t mean we are always right.

Sometimes they may be the ones who are correct! If you aren’t willing to listen to their arguments, attentively, then you have already lost, even if you are correct.

There can often be more than one “truth” to a topic, and listening is the best way to realize that.

Never tell anyone they are not spiritual enough (even if they aren’t), or that they don’t know what they are talking about (even when they really don’t) because that is a personal attack, and all you will hear is “Shields up, Scotty!!”  And when that happens, you have lost. And not just lost the argument but lost the chance to possibly save someone’s soul from eternal damnation.

We need to first ask why they believe, and then tell them why we believe otherwise, giving biblical references or established facts. If you don’t know, absolutely, where your facts come from, then be prepared to say “I have heard” or “I was told”, in order to let the other person know you aren’t really sure, but chose to believe.

The best start to winning an argument is not to try to get the other person to believe as you do, but to get the other person to doubt what they believe. That is the first step; once they doubt their facts, then you can provide your reasons why you believe and let them make their own choice.

And if you find yourself getting frustrated with their refusal to accept your ideas, then stop. Recognize that the moment you are frustrated, you are no longer working to spread God’s truth, but to satisfy your own prideful need to be recognized and accepted. At that point, sin is crouching at your door and you must master it before you start to insult the other person.

We mustn’t allow ourselves to represent God poorly, as not only will this weaken our position, but it could also turn the other person, who may not be a Believer, away from God. The very last thing we ever want to hear is someone say to us “And you call yourself a Christian!”

Everyone is given free will to choose what they will believe and since that is a gift from God, who are we to take it away from them? They will be held accountable for what they believe, and when someone believes something that will hurt them, eternally, we should try to convince them of God’s truth, and if they refuse to listen, pray for them.

But never, ever insult them or their beliefs: that won’t change their minds, and in my opinion, is an insult to God.

Thank you for being here and please subscribe, share these messages, and check out my new discussion group, Just God’s Word .

Until next time, L’hitraot and Baruch HaShem!

Is Tolerating the Same as Condoning?

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When it comes to condoning something or tolerating it, we often use these terms interchangeably, but at the root of their meaning, they are different.

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Let’s see how the Internet dictionary defines them:

Condone: accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.

Tolerate: allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. 
They seem to be the same, don’t they? In both cases, we do not like what is being done, but the difference is that what we condone, we accept, but what we tolerate we don’t accept, but we do not interfere with it.
For example, I do not condone the traditional “church” teachings that the Torah is just for Jews and Christians only have to obey the Ten Commandments. I tolerate it because I cannot change 2000 years of Christian doctrine, but I do not condone, meaning I do not accept, that it is correct and I demonstrate that by arguing against the idea whenever I get the chance.
Now, let’s take today’s lesson to the next level.
I often see many arguments (which really should be discussions) between Believers about topics that are hot potatoes, such as the pronunciation of God’s Holy Name (called the Tetragrammaton), which calendar is correct, whether the Earth is flat or round, and the whole idea of the Trinity. And, not to be forgotten, the “Once Saved, Always Saved” teaching.
And let’s not forget what I already mentioned, the idea that the Mosaic Law is just for Jews.
Today, I am not going to discuss any of these topics, and if you comment about them I will not post or answer your comments because this message is not about these topics; it is about how we should react (or better yet, act) when we are in one of these discussions. I will tell you right now, absolutely, that you will never change anyone’s mind about any of these topics. Why do I say that? History. I have never seen, in many years of these discussions, anyone who said, “Gee! Now that you mention it, I think you are right!”
Maybe there are some rare instances where this happens, and I put that down to the old saying, “Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then” meaning that there are always exceptions.
As for me, I do not design my life around the exceptions – I concentrate on the 90%, not the 10%, and for that reason, I have pretty much stopped arguing these topics.
I am tolerating them, but I do not condone them; tolerating them means I won’t interfere in these discussions because the more people argue something that can never be answered, the more division within the body of the Messiah it causes. I will not be a part of that, so I leave those discussions alone.
I recommend you do the same because history shows that arguing your side of any topic with others who refuse to listen will not build but will tear down, and too often when people pridefully try to convince someone else that they are wrong, the discussion becomes an argument which quickly devolves into one or both attacking the other on a personal level.
This sort of activity doesn’t serve God, but it does do wonders for the devil. He loves to see Believers fight because, as the Messiah himself said, a house divided against itself cannot stand (Matthew 12:22.)
If you really know something to be true, but someone else disagrees with you, you owe it to them to show them the truth. Once, maybe even twice, you can argue, compassionately, respectfully, and intelligently for your side. However, if you have made two or three good points, and that person is just absolutely set that they are right and you are wrong, then LET IT GO!  Wake up! You’re throwing pearls before swine, and you need to follow Yeshua’s advice, which is to stop wasting your time (Matthew 10:14; Luke 9:5).

If you find yourself arguing with someone and you have attempted three times to show them the truth, as you know it, and you find their argument is not making any sense to you, then stop. Tell them you will have to agree to disagree, and if they also stop, then you have both done well. Neither one of you condone the other’s beliefs, but you are willing, for the sake of not “dividing the house”, to tolerate each other.

If either one of you cannot stop trying to convince the other, then it isn’t about the truth anymore, it is simply pridefulness. When someone cannot tolerate someone else disagreeing with them, they are not working for God’s kingdom by continuing to argue; what they have done is to switch masters and they are now working for Satan’s kingdom. When someone is causing division and strife within the body of Believers, they are not serving God or Messiah.
Listen to yourself when you are in a discussion with someone, and once you have failed to convince them three times, be willing to stop. If you continue to argue, you have crossed the line from teaching to pridefulness and you are causing division within the house of God.
Look, I know how hard it is to allow someone to continue to believe that which you know is wrong, but everyone has a right to decide for themselves what they will believe. God gave them that right, and so who are you to abrogate it? You are not condoning (meaning accepting as correct) sin or wrongful teaching when you tolerate someone else’s opinion. And, after they prove that they will not change their mind, you need to let them alone and pray that one day God will open their heart to hear the truth. In the meantime, keep yourself from falling into sin with them by continuing to argue and cause division.
Here’s today’s lesson in a nutshell: don’t beat your head against a wall because the wall will always win.
Thank you for being here and please subscribe to my website and YouTube channel. Check out my website, and I always welcome your comments.
Until next time, L’hitraot and Baruch HaShem!

Pride and Prejudice

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No, I am not talking about the classic novel. Truth be told, I never read it.

I am talking about my experiences on different Face Book Discussion Groups. I have joined a few, mainly to get my name “out there” to generate interest in this ministry, my website, and (maybe?) sell a book or two. So far it has been more painful than useful.

I have been a member of one group that was supposed to be about the Torah, but instead ended up being all about Kabbalah and Talmud, almost totally Rabbinical-based. I was also on one that was titled in a way that made you think it had Messianic Jews and Messianic Christians in it, but that was not so, either.

In both these different groups I found opinions that were anywhere from banal to heretical, and it seems that 20% of the people in the group (based on the numbers of members) did 80% of the posting.

And much of what was posted was, at least for me, useless. I saw posts that were nothing more than a “copy and paste” from the bible, verse upon verse, different verses from different books tied together in a continuous diatribe, with no message, no drash- just copy and paste. Some people did find something edifying in those posts, so it did serve a purpose for some, but to me that is just a topographical, empty spiritual experience. I don’t need to be in a discussion group to read bible verses.

The real problem is the pridefulness I see in the members of these groups that makes them prejudice towards anyone that disagrees with them. I have seen abusive, degrading and distasteful language used against someone who just disagrees. I have been the butt of this, myself. I mentioned how I felt about the Zohar, the “bible” of Kabbalah on one site, and I was accused of being in league with HaSatan because by my not wanting to read it I was being willfully ignorant, which is a sin and therefor in league with the Devil.

Really? Not wanting to read something that I was taught Judaism (and this was supposedly a Torah based site) has historically considered heretical because I don’t want to expose myself to it, makes me a demon? This one person went as far as to say that Yeshua (Jesus) was Kabbalah and taught from that.  The Chasidic and Orthodox Jews believe Kabbalah was first introduced at Sinai and was part of the Oral Torah, which has become the Talmud. In other sources the origin of Kabbalah is 12th to 13th Century in Spain.

The point is not what Kabbalah is or isn’t, but that when someone disagrees with you and you find yourself attacking the person instead of the argument, then your pride has taken over and you’re showing signs of prejudice. The anger and frustration you feel is causing you to become aggressive and impolite, and that is directly from pridefulness.

When we recommend something, or suggest a way to do something, if the person we give that suggestion to decides not to do it, many of us feel that we have been insulted. “You asked me, and I told you- so why won’t you do it?” is the feeling we have. We forget it is very likely that what we suggested is not a good suggestion; maybe it isn’t right, or maybe the person knows that it is a good suggestion, but there are other factors we don’t know about (which the person does) which render the suggestion as inappropriate. If nothing else, when someone asks for an idea or suggestion that doesn’t mean they have to do what is suggested. It is not personal, it is not because they don’t like you or think less of you, it is just that they decided they don’t want to do what was suggested. They have that right.

So, when I said I didn’t want to read the Zohar because of what I had been taught about it, why did I have to be called “willfully ignorant”, or be told that I am in league with Satan, or that I am unable to make up my own mind and am “easily swayed”? Why?- because the people who I was having this discussion with are so prideful and defensive of their own beliefs that they have to attack and demean anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

And this wasn’t any one group- I have been in (and out) of about 5 groups, of which (so far) only two have been representative of what I would expect from a God-fearing group of people who believe in Yeshua, or are (for lack of a better term) “Christian” in their approach to people. And when I use the term “Christian” I mean what we would want “Christian” to mean.

So, now that that’s off my chest, what is the value of this little rant of mine? It is to remind everyone, including myself, that when we talk about God, Yeshua or the bible, we are representing that topic. In other words, if I say I believe in Yeshua and am talking with another person who doesn’t, when they disagree with me and I start to brow-beat them, call them insulting names and tell them they are doomed for hell and eternal destruction, what kind of image will that leave them about all Believers? I think we can agree that their perception of someone who is “Christian” or “Messianic” will not be a good one. When we talk about God, no matter how adamant the other person is in their opinion, let them be the one that is out of control and wildly defensive. Let them be the one to attack you and call you names or infer your lack of strength or wisdom. Let them be the one who leaves a bad taste in the mouth of all listening. In the meantime, you be compassionate, respectful and patient. If they become abusive, politely ask them to not attack you personally and stay on the topic. If they can’t, then politely excuse yourself. Let everyone who is listening see the peace and security you have in your belief- wildly defensive is saying I can’t be sure of what I am saying and anyone who doesn’t agree is weakening my faith, so I must destroy them. Quietly and calming explaining why you believe in something shows a deep and confident faith in the truth of what you are talking about.

We know who God is, we know who Yeshua is, and we know (or we should) from our experience with God and Yeshua that whether someone accepts or rejects, the truth is still the truth.  In the Trilogy of the Matrix, Morpheus talks about the prophecy of “The One.” His commanding officer says that not everyone believes as Morpheus does, to which Morpheus replies that his faith doesn’t require anyone else to believe as he does. Now that is a statement of faith!

So even if someone is bound for hell, just because it is the truth doesn’t mean you have to tell them- you certainly won’t gain anything from it with regards to changing their mind. And if someone is adamant God doesn’t exist, remember that they have a right to their opinion. God gave us all Free Will to choose or reject Him- you know God exists, so you don’t need their approval or agreement because God exists whether they believe it or not.

Too many people have a bad image of “Believers” because too many Believers have left that image with them by being so zealous that they actually do the opposite of what they want to do: instead of making people jealous of the peace the Ruach (Spirit) gives us and of the fearlessness we have knowing that God is on our side, they leave the impression that all “Bible-thumpers” are totally out of touch with reality, and the last thing anyone would want to do is become that way.

When we proclaim ourselves as followers of Messiah, everything we do and say is a reflection on Messiah. Everything. And when someone who has rejected God, and/or Yeshua , sees us act in a poor fashion, they will use that as a reason to continue to reject God and His Messiah. So instead of saving a soul, we are contributing to their death.

Think about that the next time you are in a discussion with someone trying to win their soul for Messiah.