The Pope is supposed to be God’s representative on the Earth, and (also supposedly) infallible. And, as I understand it, this is from Matthew 16:18-19. This is where Yeshua tells Kefa (that would be Jesus and Peter) that he (Kefa) is the rock on which the “church” will be built, and whatever Kefa looses on Earth will be loosed in Heaven, and whatever Kefa binds on Earth will be bound in heaven.
It sounds like Yeshua was turning over the ministry, and more than that, giving Kefa even more authority than Yeshua had, Himself.
I have researched this passage (briefly, I confess) and have gotten mostly the same results. It seems the general consensus is Yeshua was not telling Kefa that he will be in charge. Neither does the statement about things being loosed and bound mean that whatever decisions Kefa makes will be acknowledged and allowed in heaven. Actually, it is quite the opposite. What the Greek meaning is, based on the way Greek is interpreted and the proper use of past and future tenses, is that Kefa is to make decisions that are based on what has already been bound or loosed in heaven, and that he is to continue those programs here on Earth.
Think about it, hermeneutically: Yeshua said that He couldn’t do anything that His Father in heaven did not approve, Yeshua did not change any of the laws in Torah, Yeshua said that when we pray we should ask that we be forgiven on Earth as it is in heaven, and there is nothing , anywhere, in the entire New Covenant writings that indicates, even hints at, the fact that Kefa was the sole authority for the Messianic Congregations.
And infallible? Didn’t Shaul set Kefa straight about treating Gentiles and Jews differently in Galatians?
Not to pick on the Catholic Church, although they do make it very easy to do so, but c’mon, Guys? There is no way, when interpreting the Greek correctly and looking at Yeshua’s ministry and all that He taught, and especially when you look at His relationship with the Father, that you can justify Yeshua giving Kefa all that authority, and especially the forgiveness of sin. Yeshua said that He, the Son of Man, had been given the authority to forgive sins, but he never, not even once, said that His Disciples could. He gave them authority over the demons and powers to cure diseases. In the NIV version it says, “…he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases 2 and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.”
Nothing there about forgiving sins.
Who came up with this “pope” idea, anyway? I have read that Leo I is generally accepted as the one who organized the Petrine Doctrine. I don’t think it really matters whose idea it was, so far as which human being decided there should be a single authority figure within the Catholic church. What matters is that Yeshua did NOT make that decision, so it should not be done.
According to the Word of God, there is one Cohen HaGadol, or High Priest, and that person is to be a direct descendant of Aaron. The Tanakh tells us that the Mashiach (Messiah) will be a priest forever, as Melchizedek. One high priest, once and forever: that seems to be a clear statement that the Messiah will be the last high priest. If the Catholic church is to be built upon the teachings of Jesus, shouldn’t it respect, obey and and work within the parameters of what Jesus taught? If Jesus said He was the only way to the Father, why does the church pray to the saints? If God said not to have any graven images, of anything or anyone, why do Catholic churches look like an art museum devoted to statues? And if Yeshua said to Kefa that what he loosed or bound is to be what is loosed or bound in heaven, why did that get “turned-around” to make it seem that the ruler of Jesus’s church on Earth has the authority to make decisions that God has to obey? Isn’t God in charge?
If you are Catholic and you say you believe Jesus is your Saviour, you better start to bone up on what your Saviour taught. Get off the “just do as I tell you” wagon and start to find out the truth. Read the Bible, the WHOLE Bible, and get to know who the Messiah really is, from the guy who sent Him here. You won’t find that in the New Covenant because that story is about when He came. You need to find out who the Messiah is supposed to be and what He is supposed to do in the Tanakh. The B’rit Chadashah (New Covenant) relates that Yeshua was foretold about in the Torah and the Tanakh- it doesn’t go into detail. When you read the second volume of a two-volume story, the second volume is the continuation of the first one. You need to read the first one, first, to understand what the second one is about. I don’t know any Catholic (and I have known a few) that even thinks the “Jewish Bible” is important. Oh, yeah- a few may know what the Torah is, or heard of it, but they have been taught the same gibberish that the Jews have been taught- Jesus created a new religion.
That is a lie from the pit of he…well, actually it isn’t a lie from Hell. It originated right here on Earth. It originated by men, but the real idea came from Ha Satan. The separation of the believing Jews from the non-believing Jews in the first through third centuries is the greatest (in my opinion) counter-attack the Enemy has made. Yeshua won the battle, the war is over and all we have been doing for the past 2 Millennia is the mop-up work. But the Enemy gained back a lot of ground by separating people from God through wrong teachings. It was a strong counter-attack, although it won’t win the war. That’s done and over. He loses, in the end.
As they say, the Kingdom of God has arrived, it just isn’t here, yet. In the meantime, be aware, keep alert, and for your soul’s sake, get your head on straight! Even those who are faithful, who know the proper teachings of Yeshua, who know the word of God and who are ready to serve the Lord as He said we should, will be turned in the end days. The Manual tells us- indeed, warns us- that most will be turned from the faith in the last days. Not some, not a few, not maybe a handful or two, but most. That means significantly more than half.
I will go out on a limb and say that there are many who already have been turned from the true faith. There are many today who think they are serving God but are serving the Enemy, instead. Those who have been taught wrong teachings, and teach them to others, are cursed by their own ignorance and laziness. That’s what I said- laziness! They refuse to learn on their own, to make the effort to know the truth as God wants them to know it, and prefer to just sit around and be told what to believe.
The Pope is not infallible, and he is not Divinely decreed to be the leader of the Church. Nothing against the Pope, himself, but it’s just not what Yeshua wanted. It is a religious thing, created by someone, not by God or by Yeshua. And the Church is full of heresy: they teach and promote idolatry by making their people pray to saints instead of God, they defile the house of God by filling it with graven images, they defile the altar by burying their dead under it and defile the sanctuary by bringing their dead right into it. Read the Tanakh- how did the ancient peoples of God desecrate the holy places of the pagans? They laid the bones of the dead on the altars. God has stated, clearly, that if you touch a dead person you become unclean, and anything associated with the dead is unclean. Yet in a church they carry their dead right up to the altar, bury them underneath it, and surround the house of God with the dead (ever see a church that didn’t have a cemetery right next to it?)
This may seem like an anti-Catholic rant, but it isn’t a hateful attack on the Catholic church. It is a warning. It is a man crying out in the digital desert- make straight your paths! Many Gentiles (not to mention the majority of the Jews, too-don’t even get me started on that!) may already be beyond hope, and those that honor the ways that dishonor God will be drawn down to Sheol with their leaders. It isn’t a good scenario, and I am sorrowful for these poor, lost sheep that have leaders who,they themselves, are so lost and mired in religion that they have all this knowledge, yet they don’t even know what they are doing. I believe the vast majority of the priests and leaders of the Catholic church are God-fearing, wonderful people who have devoted their lives to serving the Lord. It’s just that they are blinded by centuries of man-made religious ideals and rules and traditions that have them walking straight to the Enemy’s doorstep and bowing down to him to take the mark, all the time thinking they are serving God.
The blind are leading the blind and they will all fall into a hole. I am not happy about that, and I don’ think God is happy about it, either.
GOD HAS NO RELIGION!! How many times do I have to say that? It’s just His rules, that’s all we need. For everyones sake, can’t we just follow those rules? The answer is NO! That’s why God sent Yeshua…because we can’t follow the simple rules He gave us. So nu? What do we do? We make up more rules, and then more rules about the rules, until the rules are ruling us and God has been shoved over to the sidelines.
OY!! To paraphrase Shakespeare, “What fools we mortals be!”
Look, if you feel insulted, sorry, but it’s for your own good. The Prophets of old were never popular, and I am not writing this, today or any day, to be popular. I am writing this to save souls, to bring people closer to God, and to teach them to seek out the Lord, personally. Don’t take my word for it- take His! Read His word, let the Ruach guide you, and if you haven’t accepted Yeshua/Jesus as your Messiah because you want to, go to a Proctologist and get your head out of the place it’s in now and back on your shoulders because time’s running out! Don’t think that just because someone who is in a position of religious authority tells you you are saved that you are. The only human who can save you is yourself- you need to ask God for forgiveness, to accept from God His gift of Grace made possible through the sacrificial death of Yeshua the Messiah, and do T’Shuvah in your heart so you can accept, because you want to ask for it, the Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit) to guide you from now on. You need to be ready to change “for the God.” You don’t need to change overnight, you don’t need to be a “Holy” person like in the Old Covenant, you just need to become holier than you are now. You need to walk in the pathway God tells you, you need to do what God says to do and not just what people tell you He says you should do. And you won’t know what that is until you read His Manual for Salvation.
Get ready for the end, Brothers and Sisters, ’cause it’s a-comin soon. Don’t be left out in the cold.
Tomorrow I am posting a blog post on Confession to a priest. You may view it tomorrow morning around 6:00 a.m. EST. It’s short link is http://wp.me/p26QNa-3cl.
Yours in Christ;
Michael
WAS PETER THE FIRST POPE? BY STEVE FINNELL
Was the apostle Peter the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church? A few reasons why Peter was not the first Pope.
Peter was not Pope because there is no office of Pope mentioned in the Scriptures. Peter was not the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church because there is no Roman Catholic Church mentioned in the Bible.
Peter was not a Pope because the apostles were not in subjection to him.
2 Corinthians 11:5 For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles. 2 Corinthians 12:11 I have become foolish; you yourselves compelled me. Actually I should have been commended by you, for in no respect was I inferior to the most eminent apostles, even though I am a nobody.
Not only was the apostle Paul not in subjection to Peter, he reprimanded Peter in Antioch.
Galatians 2:11-21 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned….14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?….
Peter was not Paul’s superior. (Cephas was Peter, John 1:42)
Peter was not a Pope, because he did not believe that the Virgin Mary was a mediator between men and God nor did he offer up prayers to her.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Peter was not a Pope, because he did not pray to any saints dead or alive. Prayer is worship.
Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only !”
Peter was not the first Pope, because he refuse to let men bow down and kiss his ring in an act of worship.
Acts 10:25-26 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him. fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter raised him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am just a man.”
Peter was not the first Pope because he did not referred to himself as the Chief Shepherd or head of the church of Christ. The Chief Shepherd and head of the church is Jesus Christ and Jesus alone.(Colossians 1:13-19, 1 Peter 5:1-4, Hebrews 13″20, Ephesians 1:20-23, Matthew 28:18-20, Ephesians 5:22-24.)
Peter was not the first Pope nor was he ever a Pope.
(All Scripture from: NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE)
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com
This topic generated some good debate, and some strong feelings/opinions. Thank you for adding to the discussion, but I think this one is just about worn out.
Steve, found a post site (blog) you may be interested in. It’s at http://wp.me/3MqMe . Check it out if you have time. Great article on Catholicism and Reformation.
you have covered a multitude of topic in one post- I will only cover a few points. You do not follow mainstream scholarship on the Petrine mission- all competent historians disagree with you on what Jesus meant when he spoke to peter- especially the apostolic fathers- those who knew the apostles, such as Ignatius and iranaeus, and Polycarp.
“God has no religion” is a statement that propagandists term a glittering generality. Religion is a term that means to be yoked to something. I am yoked to Christ, therefore I have a Christian religion. Christ said he will establish a Church- or a community of believers. He placed the apostles in charge, and several times placed peter as the leader.
Jesus specifically gave the church the power to forgive sin- you are forgetting that incident in scripture, which will make some people think it did not occur- it did.
No one is beyond hope- to state that puts you in charge of salvation, which I am sure you do not wish to usurp this job from Christ.
The doctrine of infallibility is not what you think it is- only when speaking in the role of the vicar of Christ- that is “ex cathedra” or from the chair of peter, on the issue of faith and morals can the pope exercise this office…. after all, we all have a tendency to do this unknowingly, BUT without any authority- such as what you are writing right now.
By what authority are you making these statements? it is your own and your own private interpretation of scripture that you do this. If that is the case(and it is) then how can anyone of sound conscious follow what you say?
Your zeal is commendable; yet you have done several times in your post what no pope or good catholic has ever done in 2,000 years; judging people into hell. only Our Lord rightly judges the hearts of men. God Bless.
Thank you for your comments, and the compliments that followed the slaps. That’s OK- I can take it. I appreciate your zeal for Christ, also, and do seriously want to generate comments. I don’t expect everyone to agree.
If I seemed judgmental, well, maybe I was. Just as much as your comments, specifically the one where you ask if I am talking on my own authority then you answer your own question by saying I am. Whether or not I have a S’Micha from heaven or from men,or none at all, you should at least be respectful enough to allow me to answer your questions myself. Don’t you agree?
I did say at the very beginning that my research was somewhat limited, and that ‘as I understand it”, which is usually interpreted as what I have been told or heard.
I am Jewish- you can’t expect me to be an expert on the Pope, now can you, really? The point is not so much whether or not the Pope is infallible, or even who the first one was, or even if there should be one. The point, my Friend, is that God gave us commandments, laws, rules, and regulations that the church has ignored or over-ridden with their own man-made traditions, and no one who reads the Bible can argue with the fact that that this was also a main sore point with Yeshua. The church needs to get back to basics (oh- I wrote a book about that. Maybe you can get it and tell me what you think of the thoughts in there. If you liked this post, WOW! You’ll love that book!)
Look, I am kidding with you and do appreciate your comments, which I respect. You make valid points about the judgmental attitude, and I am sounding somewhat disrespectful, but I will not apologize for telling anyone, Pope, or janitor, that they are ignoring and abrogating God’s commands. Do you really think that Yeshua would be happy with the state of “religion” today? We need to worship God, and God had no religion, especially based on your definition. If being yoked to something is the definition of religion, than what is God yoked to? From your statement that ‘God has no religion’ is a generality, I find it to be a specific reminder of His absolute authority. You may be yoked to Christ, but I worship God, the same guy that Christ worshiped. We are to pray to God, and God alone. Yeshua is the way to God, and Yeshua, alone. So, we pray to God in the name of Yeshua, our Messiah and Intercessor. Not to statues, not to people, and we don’t get forgiven our sins by anyone but God and by the blood of Messiah Yeshua.
BTW..please remind me of the incident in scripture where Yeshua said that anyone on earth, any man, has the right and authority to forgive sins, other than Himself. You are right when you say I forgot that. Please remind me where it is. Thank you, please keep reading and don’t ever hesitate to correct me if you think I am wrong. I probably will be. Blessings.
got your reply- thanks got me I your net now, buddy! I will keep it up later, just wanted you to know that I read it and now understand where you are coming from; usually I deal with catholic haters whose eyes are so red with blood they do not wish to listen- will get back to you in a bit . God Bless!
I am back.
first parameters-
I assume you are a messianic Jew. my tone was reserved for a “bible Christian” if you are involved in these types of debates for long, you will understand why Catholics are so defensive. please forgive my poor typing skills as well!
John 20:19-24 will give you the place to see where Jesus conferred the authority to forgive sins to the apostles. they in turn conferred this power to their successors (episkopoi in Greek and bishops in Latin) along with certain other heavenly powers- consecration of the eucharist, anointing the sick, ordaining others to the cleric classes– bishops, priests(presbyters- Greek) and the diaconate
I agree about Gods absolute authority; no question I find that however we disagree on whether or not Yeshua is divine Christ Himself said “the Father and I are One” and “whoever sees me sees the Father” . we as catholics believe in the Trinitarian doctrine, which at its very core, is a mystery, and cannot adequately be explained, other than Jesus(Yeshua) the Paraclete(the Holy Spirit) and The Father are One, yet separate at the same time. you can get a better explanation from other sources, but it comes down to a belief(decision) you must make . Yes Jesus is the way to God, but He is also God Himself- is our belief and position. Faithful, obedient Catholics are just as faithful obedient….. anyone else; in the minority. even so “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” and “none are righteous; no not one” as Paul wrote. When the Temple was destroyed, Temple worship was destroyed as well- yet Christ Himself as He said was the True Temple. And in this vein, Catholics in the sacred mass participate in the crucifixion, death and resurrection at every Eucharist, where the veils of time and space are pulled back and we are their with Him as He gives His life for the redemption of the world.
oh and by the way, we don’t pray to statues, any more than you pray to a picture of a loved one; we remember them as we pray to God, and we ask those whom the statues represent to pray for us before the Lord in heaven, as they are not dead but alive and in the presence of He Who Is. This is what we call the communion of saints(Latin or Greek for believers), which is a doctrine of our faith.
Lastly- no I do not believe for a moment that God is happy with the state of “religion” today– anymore than he was when Christ busted up the temple market 2,000 years ago. as He said” when the Son of Man returns, will He find any faith left?
I came across your blog when, while scrolling, I came across the title of your blog. Ironic as it may seem I have one with the same title. Although the content is differently stated, the facts are the same (SEE: http://wp.me/p26QNa-2xY). I have posted much on the topic of Catholicism and other religions from around the world.
You are correct concerning your topic on “whether or not” Peter was the 1st Bishop of Rome and your discourse of apostolic succession. Nowhere within the content of biblical scripture is this mentioned. But while Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles, or over the church (having primacy). See Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; and 1 Peter 5:1-5. Nor is it ever taught in Scripture that the bishop of Rome, or any other bishop, was to have primacy over the church. Scripture does not even explicitly record Peter even being in Rome. Rather there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome (1 Peter 5:13). Primarily upon this and the historical rise of the influence of the Bishop of Rome come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20), and the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).
I wish to thank you for your post on this topic. I agree the words of truth need to be presented; especially in these end times.
May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bless you and keep you. Shalom!
Thank you for your kind words, and not everyone agrees with us. Check out the comment above…
Well we all know that there are, in all religions, those who are a die hard and fanatics. They are convinced of the dogma and traditions that are unfounded in scripture. No one has the power to forgive others of sin. That is exclusively the authority of God through Jesus Christ (Messiah). It is best to pray for these people, that they receive the gift of discernment and come to the realization of what is truth. Testing every spirit.
When it comes to confession of sin, believers are told in 1 John 1:9 to confess their sins to God. God is faithful and just to forgive our sins as we confess them to Him. James 5:16 speaks of confessing our trespasses “to one another,” but this is not the same as confessing sins to a priest as the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Priests / church leaders are nowhere mentioned in the context of James 5:16. Further, James 5:16 does not link forgiveness of sins with the confession of sins “to one another.”
The Roman Catholic Church bases their practice of confession to a priest primarily on Catholic tradition. Mr. Spizziri makes no reference to biblical support (quoting scripture) in his appeal/response to you or the comments he makes. There is only one church. That which is founded upon Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior. He is the corner stone and foundation of the Church. Not Peter… not a priest, not you nor I; but in Jesus alone.
Again;
May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bless and keep us and may we come to know the truth.
“Fanatic” may be a hard word. 🙂 All our beliefs come from others (at least, initially) and are based on teachings and reading, and the leading of the Ruach. I believe we can best serve each other, and edify each other, by constantly staying to what is in the Bible as being the basis for our beliefs. And every single person has to read it for his or her self, and let the Ruach guide them. Just as no one can be held guilty without the witness of two or more people, so, too, I believe the word should be confirmed somewhere else in the Manual, at least once or twice more, to be taken absolutely as it is written. Many people are doing what they believe correct based on what people they respect and love and admire have told them. Those people got their ideas the same way, and the same way, for thousands of years. In both Judaism and Christianity. We need to ask questions that people have to think about in order to help each one of us to be led to what the Ruach will reveal. Repeating doctrine is not going to convince anyone, but making people re-evaluate their own position, which you need to do if you are answering fair and hard questions, is the pathway to the truth, whether it be a confirmation of an existing truth or the discovery a new truth.
though I appreciate your response I must reiterate that the terminology “fanatic” is not “harsh” when referenced to certain aspects of religious belief. As in the case of Islamic Fundamentalist and their Jihadist movement.
From your usage of the Jewish term, Ruach, I adduce you refer to the Holy Spirit. An invisible force or power or Ruach Elohim the spirit of God?
I believe, in commenting upon Mr. Spizziri’s view, my referencing “fanatic” was meant to illustrate truth and whether such truth is in him. As in the case of Pilate questioning Jesus on His kingdom.
John 18:38
What is Truth- This question was probably asked of Jesus in contempt, and hence Jesus did not answer it. Had the question been sincere, and had Pilate really sought it as Nicodemus had done John 3, Jesus would not have hesitated to explain to him the nature of his kingdom. They were now alone in the judgment-hall John 18:33, and as soon as Pilate had asked the question, without waiting for an answer, he went out. It is evident that he was satisfied, from the answer of Jesus John 18:36-37, that he was not a king in the sense in which the Jews accused him; that he would not endanger the Roman government, and consequently that he was innocent of the charge alleged against him. He regarded him, clearly, as a fanatic poor, ignorant, and deluded, but innocent and not dangerous. Hence, Pilate sought to release him; and, hence, in contempt, he asked him this question What is truth?”, and immediately went out, not expecting an answer.
This question had long agitated the world. It was the great subject of inquiry in all the schools of the Greeks. Different sects of philosophers had held different opinions, and Pilate now, in derision, asked him, whom he esteemed an ignorant fanatic, whether he could solve this long-agitated question. He might have had an answer. If he had patiently waited in sincerity, Jesus would have told him what it was. Thousands ask the question in the same way. They have a fixed contempt for the Bible; they deride the instructions of religion; they are unwilling to investigate and to wait at the gates of wisdom; and hence, like Pilate, they remain ignorant of the great Source of truth, and die in darkness and in error. All might find truth if they would seek it; none ever will find it if they do not apply for it to the great source of light the God of truth or Ruach Elohim , and seek it patiently in the way in which he has chosen to communicate it to mankind. How highly should we prize the Bible! And how patiently and prayerfully should we search the Scriptures, that we may not err and die forever! See John 14:6. Thus, in this regard, I agree with you.
I find in him no fault – See Luke 23:4.
I had a smiley face after my comment. You know, a smiley face? 🙂
Yes, I did notice the smiley face. I am sorry for having interpreted this to indicate your pleasure of your own comment as being harsh. forgive me for my ill-interpretation of the usage.
No harm done I assure you. Shalom!
Steve, if you review what I wrote concerning truth I am, in all sincerity, agreeing with you concerning Ruach and His leading us. Thanx
au contrair, my good friend- I do make references just as asked. I may not know the addresses and phone numbers of everyone in town off the top of my head- but— I do know who they are, where they live, what they like, and most importantly, how they interact with each other, and how they are related to each other, whether by blood or marriage. Furthermore, it is quite easy for me to spout references when asked, since I KNOW the town, while many people just know a few people very well; not their neighbors- and when these things are brought up to them they either get angry and call me stupid, or ignore it. Now; who would you say knows more about the town? Zeal is an admirable thing, yet what fruit did the zealots harvest? Please do not reply as your animus is more than unreasonable, and frankly, I have heard it too often from other lips. The wright brothers invented the plane 100 years ago,
1. if you want to cobble together a new “invention” go ahead- you cannot do it without the concepts already discovered.
2. we fly far faster, more comfortable, safer and efficient planes than you could ever do in your “shop”
I’m sticking to the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith. Yeshua is my Lord, God and Savior- if all you want Him to do is be the Jewish Messiah and nothing else, no problems here: I believe I have the better deal.
Not sure I am following you on this one, John, if it is meant for me. I think this is meant for someone else?
Heck- I am just so happy that I finally got someone to argue with me. Can any of you understand how difficult it is to be a Jew and not have anyone argue with you? (smiley face here- there is a smiley face here, OK?)
I am going to bow out a little from this discussion, but in the interest of keeping a spirit of understanding and exchange of views, so long as we all behave ourselves I will continue to approve the replies, even if I don’t agree with them.